[illumos-Discuss] [Discuss] IE? (Illumos En Español)
Matt Lewandowsky
matt at greenviolet.net
Fri Aug 6 01:16:41 PDT 2010
If you speak both languages, there's no reason not to subscribe to both
lists. And maybe occasionally cross-post bilingually. :) (This goes for all
language-specific lists, in my opinion.) I, however, continue to feel that
One List to Rule Them All is a poor approach.
I honestly think that in the scheme of things, those who are totally unable
to participate in the English-language lists are a small percentage. (I'd be
happy to see numbers showing what the make-up is in the average open-source
project, but I've never found any!) However, those who prefer to communicate
in their native tongue, or are more effective in communicating with their
native language probably makes up a much more sizeable number. (And we've
certainly seen that Spanish-speakers are vocal so far!)
However, think about some of the things which are likely to be discussed on
a language-specific list:
* Localization
* Translation
* Local evangelism
* Support
With the exception of the last one (provided it's not something of a FAQ),
there's probably nothing to be gained by ensuring that the communication is
done in English. And, again, if it's of general interest, there's nothing to
stop someone from crafting a bilingual (or perhaps multilingual, in the
future) cross-posting. (Even if the bilingual part is thanks to a
translation service, though I'd hope that the submitter of that message
would be kind enough to tell the recipients so that they could understand
why the language was odd.)
Again, just my thoughts on the matter.
--Matt
P.S. Garrett had requested that the español list be set up. Is there an ETA
on that? :)
P.P.S. When it comes time to write the rules of mailing lists, may I suggest
the following? "All posts to any list should be in either UTF-8 or US-ASCII,
unless specified otherwise on the list's information page. These two
character sets should be handled properly by almost any mail client. UTF-8
is preferred." This will help prevent character set issues. ;) For some
languages, that is an important thing to have spelled out. Unfortunately,
not every mail reader is smart enough to do character set conversions yet,
as we saw during the past few days.
--
Matt Lewandowsky
Big Geek
Greenviolet
matt at greenviolet.net http://www.greenviolet.net
+1 415 578 5782 (US) +44 844 484 8254 (UK)
+86 755 33944325 (CN) +39 02 8715 7053 (IT)
--------------------------------------------------
From: "Gabriel de la Cruz" <gabriel.delacruz at gmail.com>
Date: Friday, 06 August, 2010 0:59
To: "Matt Lewandowsky" <matt at greenviolet.net>
Cc: "Joerg Schilling" <Joerg.Schilling at fokus.fraunhofer.de>;
<hsaltiel at gmail.com>; <garrett at nexenta.com>; <discuss at lists.illumos.org>
Subject: Re: [illumos-Discuss] [Discuss] IE? (Illumos En Español)
> Hi
> Actually for the ones speaking both languages it is nice to receive
> them at once, if someone needs a hint about what what is going on,
> please just ask, I guess we could highlight if there is any important
> subject coming up on either side. I would suggest just to skip the
> Spanish comments and keep reading the posts, do the same as you do
> when compiling kernels; if you don't understand what it means, don't
> mess with it, and you wont panic ;-D
>
> -Google translate works very well, just as a hint.
> -Do not hesitate to ask if you need to translate something to the other
> team
>
>
> We are building some Babel tower, in order to get closer and closer to
> the SUN ;-)
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Fri, Aug 6, 2010 at 2:32 AM, Matt Lewandowsky <matt at greenviolet.net>
> wrote:
>> Likewise, not everyone can speak English. (Sadly, this includes some
>> people who claim it as their native tongue, but that's hopefully
>> irrelevant here.)
>>
>> So, how I see it is as follows: If the project doesn't accommodate
>> non-English speakers, they'll either ignore the project and/or they may
>> splinter off the radar. I've seen this happen with other open source
>> projects, where there's a group of people speaking another language who
>> have a superset (of sorts) of the main codebase, managed as a separate
>> project as it had been decreed that all communication on the main
>> project's lists must be in English. They inevitably end up forking or
>> dying (with their enhancements never ending up in the upstream codebase,
>> usually due to a form of NIH combined with the sheer size of the
>> patchset), as they don't have any value as a separate project with simply
>> locale-based changes.
>>
>> It benefits no one, especially if it's a huge codebase like this. If they
>> want an official mechanism to communicate in their native language, I say
>> go for it. The only other fair solution is to make this list
>> multilingual, which bring us back to your original complaint: you don't
>> speak Spanish. ;) Do you want to be stuck reading multi-lingual posts
>> here, do you want them to have an officially-sanctioned place to
>> collaborate, or do you want to force them into a self-run state where
>> they may be forced to create a derivative project?
>>
>> While avoiding "every possible group gets at least one list", it's easy
>> to fall into the trap at the other end of the spectrum: insufficient
>> number of lists.
>>
>> Just my US$0.02. (I know that it's worth less than ever, but humor me.
>> :) )
>>
>> --Matt Lewandowsky
>> Greenviolet
>>
>>
>>
>> Sent from my HTC Touch Pro2 on the Now Network from Sprint®.
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Joerg Schilling <Joerg.Schilling at fokus.fraunhofer.de>
>> Sent: Thursday, August 05, 2010 11:56
>> To: hsaltiel at gmail.com; garrett at nexenta.com
>> Cc: discuss at lists.illumos.org
>> Subject: Re: [illumos-Discuss] [Discuss] IE? (Illumos En Español)
>>
>> Hernan Saltiel <hsaltiel at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> > Hi, Garrett!
>> > As you can read in the previous emails, the Spanish speaking community
>> is
>> > very interested in having a mailing list in your site where to post
>> doubts
>> > and collaborate in our own language.
>> > And maybe, of course, translate the site in the future ;-) .
>> > Is there any chance to have this list in IllumOS.org, with a name like
>> > "illumos-es" or "discuss-es", for example?
>>
>> I believe that having different "clubs" for different languages would
>> separate
>> the community.
>>
>> I don't speak spanish, so how would I know what has been discussed in a
>> spanish
>> mailing list?
>>
>> Jörg
>>
>> --
>> EMail:joerg at schily.isdn.cs.tu-berlin.de (home) Jörg Schilling D-13353
>> Berlin
>> js at cs.tu-berlin.de (uni)
>> joerg.schilling at fokus.fraunhofer.de (work) Blog:
>> http://schily.blogspot.com/
>> URL: http://cdrecord.berlios.de/private/
>> ftp://ftp.berlios.de/pub/schily
>>
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>
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